OWEN MCDONNELL: Hello everybody, my name is Owen McDonnell and you are listening and maybe watching if you are on our YouTube to In the Know, a podcast dedicated to the University of Minnesota. And I’m here with City Desk reporter Grace Aigner. 

GRACE AIGNER: Hi Owen, how are you?

MCDONNELL: Doing great. How are you? 

AIGNER: I’m a sophomore, first of all at the University of Minnesota. I’ve been at the Daily since my first semester freshman year. I feel like looking back on it is maybe a mistake, but I’ve loved my time here. 

I’ve been on the city desk the whole time working with almost the same people the whole time, which has been super awesome. I’ve gotten to know them really well. And I cover a lot of neighborhood stuff, some city council stuff. 

I really like talking about state legislature as well. Whatever Jack, my editor, wants me to report on. Yeah, that’s what I do here. 

MCDONNELL: Sweet. How many stories have you written here so far? A ballpark?

AIGNER: I think like more than 50. 

MCDONNELL: Wow. You’re on pace to have a lot of stories. Have you started here first semester freshman year? 

AIGNER: Yeah, I think I counted for like an application for something recently and it was like 45. But that was like last semester, so I think it’s probably like 50 now. 

MCDONNELL: That’s sweet. Yeah. Well, good for you. 

AIGNER: Yeah. Thank you. I’m proud of it. 

MCDONNELL: Yeah. Well, one of your most recent stories or maybe your most recent, it’s not about a bill, it’s kind of about a neighborhood. It’s about Como, where we live. 

AIGNER: Yeah. 

MCDONNELL: It’s about a garden.

AIGNER: It is. 

MCDONNELL: So talk to the viewers a bit about, uh. Yeah. How you found that story for some of the listeners who maybe hadn’t caught it when it was published. 

AIGNER: Okay. Yeah. So my most recent story is a little bit different from what I normally report on, which was, first of all, amazing. I love this story.

I was reporting on the Talmage Community Crossing Garden and the vacant plot that sits next to it that a lot of Como community members have been wanting to turn into an extension of that garden for about 15 years. 

It’s been a long process. People really care about the area. And I got to talk to some really amazing community members. The conflict of the story is that community members have pretty much everything in alignment for them. They have funding, they have grant funding that they got, they have support from their neighbors, they have city council support, public work support, to get and use and change this little triangular 1,000 square foot plot of land.

But, it’s privately owned. It’s been privately owned since about the ’70s, um, when this area of Talmage was kind of shut down for the railroad over there. And there was a whole deal of many, many years of the owners who changed hands a couple times saying that they would be interested in selling it to the city so that the neighborhood could use it.

But that has fallen through many, many times. It’s kind of reaching its last opportunity to do anything because the grant money that the Talmage community Rain Garden Project has runs out. It expires in March of 2026. So they are kind of a last ditch effort here. And that was essentially what the story was about.

I got to talk to pretty much everyone on all sides of the issue, which is not something that I get the privilege of doing a lot. Mostly because of time constraints and who responds and who’s accessible, and things like that. So it was very, it was special to report on that.

MCDONNELL: Interesting. So we both live in Como and I bet some listeners you know, live in Como or have been to Como. Where is this garden? And have you, I mean, obviously you’ve been to the garden, but had you seen it prior to reporting on it?

AIGNER: No, I, I don’t live so I don’t know about you, but wherever you live in Como, I never go much deeper past the University, like further from the university than I have to. Do you know what I mean? 

MCDONNELL: Yes.

AIGNER: So Talmage Avenue and 21st Avenue, this garden is on that intersection. So Talmage is a few streets back from me. I don’t know about you, but it’s a few streets back from me. I’d never seen it before, but there is a sizable community garden that exists there, and it should be blooming pretty soon.

But that’s where it is. It’s in student housing, it’s a student neighborhood, generally. Lots of renters, some longtime residents. But that’s where it is if anyone who lives in Como wants to see it.

MCDONNELL: Interesting. Yeah. So, how big is like the plot of land, like the asphalt versus this garden?

AIGNER: So the asphalt is literally triangular, like it’s a perfect triangle. It’s 1,000 square feet. The existing garden is much bigger. It’s like a huge rhombus size thing. It’s, it’s sizable. It’s about like maybe a block large. But the vacant part of it is much smaller, but it is directly adjacent to it. They kind of, they literally like butt heads against one another. 

MCDONNELL: That’s so interesting. So, talk to me a bit about your interviews. And specifically I want to hear about Chris Vos. He seems to be on both sides a little bit.

AIGNER: So yeah. So this, again, rare opportunity to get to talk to people on every side of an issue. And that was first of all, extremely special because I, I value that deeply like being a reporter. But I was, first of all a little nervous, because before I spoke to Chris Vos, who is the son of the landlord who currently owns the building, the residence and then this plot. But he is essentially like, he’s been in communication and involved and he’s like the future landlord for his dad, for context. 

MCDONNELL: The successor. 

AIGNER: Yes. The successor of the 1,000 square foot plot of land. And I was nervous to talk to him because of what I said before. Like I don’t always talk to, villain is a really strong word, because he’s not, he’s not, I wanna clarify that.

But I had spoken with people who were for the Talmage Garden and the way that they’ve portrayed the situation is that the Vos family are the naysayers. Right. So I was going into that interview nervous because I was like, I don’t know if he’s gonna be mad that I’m even trying to talk to him about this.

I didn’t know if he was gonna be pissed that I’m like talking to him or if he’s just gonna hang up on me, but I felt like I had to try and talk to him. 

MCDONNELL: Yeah.

AIGNER: Because I had gotten his phone number from one of the people Luke Nichols. I got his phone number, so I called him and I was like sitting there, like letting it ring, letting it ring. And I was like, “Alright, okay. It’s fine. You’re just, you know how to do this, whatever.” 

And he picks up, and I was like, “Hi!” Voice jumps up. And I explained what I was doing and I framed it very much as I want to know what you think about this. Like, that is how I approached it. I wasn’t starting with a question, I wasn’t starting with an accusation. About his family’s position on selling the plot. 

I just wanted to know what he thought and he, he laughed when I answered the phone, he picked it up and I heard him move away from his phone and he laughed, like chuckled to himself that I was reaching out to him about this and I was like, alright, because he wasn’t laughing at me. He was laughing at, I think, the issue. 

MCDONNELL: Okay. 

AIGNER: Not in a mean way, but in a, wow. I think maybe, I don’t know.

MCDONNELL: Like a this being reported on sort of thing?

AIGNER: Yes, yes. Like a little bit of astonishment. And we had a good conversation. He was very open about being like, we, you know, the idea of a garden is fantastic, but as property owners, we have qualms, at least with what has been presented to us, is the plan for this area.

And, it was super short. Like he answered my question super fast. We were done in like eight minutes, which is pretty short for me for an interview. And I was really pleased with the fact that I, one had the balls to call him, and two, that he was willing to be honest and say, you know, ‘Yeah we don’t agree with this entirely. And like of course, you know, it’s great, but we have our own interests and those conflict with the interests of the people who live here.’

And again, I guess it’s important to note that as landlords, they don’t live in Como. So it’s a different perspective that he had. But, weirdly, that’s probably one of my favorite interviews I did from this story. Just because of him being the, in quotes, like “opposition.” 

MCDONNELL: Hey, you were walking on eggshells. That’s kind of fun. 

AIGNER: Yeah. And then as I was talking, I tried to frame myself also as like really work hard to be like, I’m just trying to figure this out. Like I’m not siding one way or another. Like you’re not supposed to. You can’t do that. Like it’s not right and it was kind of a test of my skills a little bit. 

MCDONNELL: You like, you know, asphalt, cement just as much as you like flowers.

AIGNER: I do! And I like property rights just as much as I like community gardens. 

MCDONNELL: Yeah. 

AIGNER: Yeah. But I, I was, curious. What do you care about as the landlord who doesn’t live there, but who owns this plot of land that you don’t use?

MCDONNELL: Yeah, like he, you were talking about his, you know, we have certain interests for this plot of land, but like, you know, it’s just like a big piece of asphalt. Did he like, talk about any plans at all for it? Or is it just like owning land for the sake of owning land? 

AIGNER: Well, it wasn’t that completely, it was, they don’t use this plot of land, but the biggest issue that he drew, which is isn’t mentioned in the story, for those who want to read it, is that the plan that has been explained to him and his family is that if they sell the land and they give it to the city, or they sell the land to the city and, and the project starts and turning the asphalt into a garden. 

There, the curb and the asphalt would be removed because it’s like there’s a curb there for the street. And the main concern is as property owners, they said, ‘As we understand it, this would erode our land,’ and be kind of a threat to structural integrity of their property. 

They were concerned about erosion damages. Where the conflict, like the stalemate kind of came from is they were like, it seems like there, this is non-negotiable selling to the city. There was also qualms with like city ownership when it’s so close to their house, or the property they own. 

That’s where the stalemate came from between Como neighbors and the Vos family. Where it was like, this has to be done if we wanna turn this into a garden. But the Vos family was like, okay, the garden’s great. This is the problem. The way that you’re gonna go about turning it into a garden we are nervous about for our property. 

MCDONNELL: Yeah. 

AIGNER: Is the best way I can put it. 

MCDONNELL: Yeah, it was, I thought the quote from Vos was very interesting when he said, you know that ‘It sounds like a phenomenal idea, but we don’t want to give up the little control that we have.’

AIGNER: Yes. And that was, that was something he said at the very end of the interview. Which is a little bit different from what he’s saying where, but it, it, it’s so close to their property and that’s how they feel. 

You know, this is ours and giving it to the city and or selling it to the city and letting it become this whole construction project and all of that is not something they’re interested in essentially.

MCDONNELL: Yeah. Yeah. So. We’ve been talking about the asphalt, you know, we’ve been talking about property, we’ve been talking about management, whatever. Now I don’t know if you’re a big gardener. I used to be. I was.

AIGNER: I have a small green thumb. It’s like barely green. 

MCDONNELL: Yeah. I used to. I was forced to be a gardener. My dad used to make me garden as a kid. 

AIGNER: Of course. 

MCDONNELL: I don’t really garden that much anymore. But I would assume that the people you talk to in opposition to this asphalt triangle. It’s kind of a niche, you know, gardening, it’s, it’s not like taxes or money, it’s just like a garden. 

Like, I assume that the people you talked to were pretty passionate about the topic. So you interviewed someone who would walk through the garden for their mental health. Talk a bit about that interview. 

AIGNER: So yeah, that interview, I believe that was Avery Davis. If I remember, there were two folks who I talked to who were petition signers supporting the garden, essentially. You know, the group made a petition and they lived in Como and signed it. 

That was a three minute interview. Because I got those numbers like the morning before the story was due. And I was like, okay, I want, let’s see who answers. Because I just wanted to know why they supported the petition, why they bothered.

And that was what Avery said to me. They were like, it was very clear to me and it’s not about the fact of planting flowers and weeds, not weeds, flowers, it’s what the garden does for the community. And that’s what Avery talked about. 

MCDONNELL: Yeah. 

AIGNER: It is a gathering space. The existing garden that’s there. It is a gathering space. It’s natural, it’s beautiful. It blooms in the spring. It’s wonderful for, for Avery, specifically their mental health when they were living here, around their college years. That’s a hard time in life. And, that garden was a resource for them. And that’s what they really emphasized to me. It’s a calm space. It’s a, it’s a safe space. I guess that is what I got from them.

MCDONNELL: And you said there was like an art class that went there? Talk about that. 

AIGNER: Yeah, Avery Davis works at the Minneapolis College of Art and Design. And they led a watercolor class for the community in the existing garden last year where folks just came and there were supplies for them and they could sit with whatever flower in the garden that intrigued them or that they thought was pretty.

And Avery kind of taught them some techniques, at least from what she was explaining to me in our quick three minutes. They said it was so enriching and wonderful and inspiring to see people take a moment to pause and sit with nature. And they said that they would love to do that again, is what they wanted. Why they were supporting the petition. 

MCDONNELL: Yeah, definitely. And, I can’t remember if there was a mention about other gardens in Como. Where, where are those? 

AIGNER: So there’s six community gardens in Como. Como, I would say, is the green thumb of this area. The student, the university area. It’s a huge priority. So there are six other community gardens and they are, I can’t say anything better than that they’re scattered around the neighborhood. 

They’re kind of tucked into little corners. I remember looking at a map that plotted all of them out. You wouldn’t, just as well as you may have not seen the Talmage Crossing garden one, you probably maybe haven’t seen these before. But there’s six of them.

MCDONNELL: If listeners, you know, wanna go geocaching for them and go find all six. 

AIGNER: Yeah. 

MCDONNELL: We don’t know where they are exactly, but they’re in Como so go, go look for them. 

AIGNER: There’s one at Van Cleve I believe. 

MCDONNELL: Oh, is there? 

AIGNER: I might be lying, let’s see. So, three of them, they are really like in between 13th and 22nd street. And then they’re really like, they’re around Como Ave right in there. That’s where you’re gonna find the six. And then the Talmage one is pretty far north. I don’t know if that’s north, but up when you look at a map. So, yeah, that’s where they’re at. 

MCDONNELL: Sweet. Yeah. 

AIGNER: Very close to where a lot of students live.

MCDONNELL: I’m not gonna say exactly where I live, but it’s pretty close. 

AIGNER: Don’t doxx yourself. 

MCDONNELL: Yeah. I’m not doxxing myself but I’m, you know, I’m in the area. 

AIGNER: I’m, I’m around. I am too. I actually live really close to one of ’em. 

MCDONNELL: Yeah. You’re a city desk reporter. And, you know, you have a lot of stories here, so what is like one story that you’re super proud of?

AIGNER: This one. 

MCDONNELL: Okay. 

AIGNER: Honestly this one is one of them. There’s another one, but real quick, I don’t get to report on stuff like this a lot. The reason that I love journalism and I love reporting locally, is because people care about where they live and what they do here. And a lot of times I’m talking to PR people and city council members, who are awesome and they care about the city, but they’re professionals, they’re very professional.

And so to talk to neighbors was so wonderful. They care so much on both sides of the issue. It was awesome. So I’m really proud of the story I could kind of tell with that. 

But another story I’m really proud of, kind of similar. I wrote a profile on council member Michael Rainville last semester. Do you know what I’m talking about? 

MCDONNELL: I just emailed him. 

AIGNER: Awesome. Has he responded? 

MCDONNELL: No. He didn’t respond. So anyway.

AIGNER: He prided himself on quick response, so I’m sure he will. I might only know this because I pay so much attention to City Council, but Michael Rainville is very moderate in comparison to, some could even say conservative, in comparison to how a lot of other city, Minneapolis City Council members vote.

He votes no a lot. And I’ve never interviewed him before. But his ward was up for reelection. I was like, ‘Okay, I wanna talk to him.’ Like I wanna see what his deal is. I wanna see what’s going on. Like why, why is he still here if when he votes no, it does nothing to change this way of what the city council does, almost always.

And I had this excellent conversation with a man who has lived here his entire life, who has family members who’ve been on the city council, who essentially said to me, ‘My job is not to be a global activist. It is to serve my neighbors.’ And that was not what I thought our conversation was going to be.

And as a journalist, like that’s very compelling because I don’t think most people would think that or assume that about Michael Rainville. None of us on the city desk who pay attention to the, the council a lot had any idea like, what, what the hell he’s doing here. If his minority vote is, so he’s, he’s been on the council for a while.

And I’m proud of that story because it was enlightening for me. Like I was proud to kind of like put my own assumptions about him on blast and be like, no, here’s how he actually is. And yes, there are some controversies I’ll say that we’re like involved with, that he’s had in his time as a public servant, but I’m really proud of that story too.

MCDONNELL: Yeah, that’s awesome. I mean that’s a, it’s interesting when you have an assumption of someone going, I mean. As, as much as like, as a journalist, you don’t wanna have any assumption of people. 

AIGNER: Mm-hmm. 

MCDONNELL: Like it’s human nature to have something. Especially if you have like an, like an obvious idea of what you think someone’s gonna look like. And you go into it and it’s like, wow, that is just like, actually not at all what I thought it was gonna be. That’s really interesting. 

AIGNER: Right. And it, it’s weird because it wasn’t like a personal assumption. It’s literally an assumption I developed at work. Like, it, it was, it’s an assumption I developed like as a reporter and paying attention to city politics, which was very weird for me to then be like. LOL you’re wrong. Or you don’t know a lot. You don’t know as much as you think you did about what you’re supposed to know a lot about. And I, that was weirdly enjoyable for me. 

MCDONNELL: Yeah. I guess then now, you know. 

AINGER: Yeah actually, yeah. So now you know, if, if you wanna know why Michael Rainville votes the way he does, you can read that story.

MCDONNELL: Yeah. I also am wondering, because you have stories you’re proud of anything like crazy that has happened during reporting. Like some crazy story.

AIGNER: The stories I write are pretty, I don’t wanna say tame. You know what, no. People come at me in my emails after I write stuff, and it’s been happening a lot this semester.

Sorry, I don’t wanna say come at me, but it’s like PR people. And I’ll admit I’ve made mistakes before. Yeah, of course. But some of it is stuff that they’ll email me about and say that like, you said this wrong, or you painted this in the wrong way, or like, whatever. 

And then I go back to the story and I read what they’re talking about and then I Google it, what I said, and I’m usually right and that, and then I just ignore the email.

But that is probably what is the most frustrating part of also just being on the city desk. I don’t know the other desk experience, but like, sometimes people don’t like what we report which I think is a testament to us being thorough and good at what we do. But I’m also 19 years old, so getting emails from professional working adults.

I know, I know I’m an adult, but like adults, is wild sometimes. 

MCDONNELL: Yeah, definitely.

AINGER: Understandable because it’s their job, but like. It’s wild. 

MCDONNELL: Yeah. You’re, you’re emailing a 19-year-old right now.

 AIGNER: Yeah. Yeah. And I, they don’t know that I’m sure, but like also I’m a student. You know, so, and that’s to say I have made my mistakes before, but these are instances where it’s like I haven’t, and someone just doesn’t like that I kind of figured out the truth of the story I would say. Maybe I’m giving myself too many props, but I think that’s what it kind of is. And sometimes people don’t look great when in the truth, so. 

 MCDONNELL: Alright, and that just about concludes our conversation. If any of you listeners have any questions, comments, concerns, make sure to let us know and reach out. But otherwise that’s all I’ve got and that was a great conversation. 

I am Owen McDonnell.

AIGNER: And I’m Grace Aigner. Thanks for having me. 

MCDONNELL: And this has been In The Know, thank you for listening.